22 March 2008

FutureChurch and St. Augustine's Catholic Church

Hmm... I found this on FutureChurch's website. FutureChurch is concerned about the related issues of women in ministry, optional celibacy, inclusive language, and Church decision-making that involves all the faithful, as called for by Vatican II. In other words, it is a heretical organization. They promote events called "Celebrations of St. Mary of Magdala". One of these celebrations is a bit of a tradition at Saint Augustine's, led by Kathy Kidder. Here is the article from FutureChurch

A few highlights:
The evening opened with a "blessing" by Sister Dolorosa Kissaka
Nancy Demers "presided" over a vespers service
Sister Rose Hoover (who has advocated women's ordination) gave an "inspiring reflection".

Shoot, I wish I was there.


Blogger Jessica said...

It is horrifying how such a great saint is being so dishonoured. And how individuals are trying to conform Christ's Church to fit their visions and the degenerate culture.

St. Mary Magdalene, pray for us!

March 22, 2008 6:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's more horrifying is the general ignorance about the event. Recollection serves this event was held more than 5 years ago.
Were you there?
Do you know what was said?
Do you know what was done?
Do you believe all that is written on the internet? Perhaps some of the wording in the caption was created to suit the purpose of the website and not a fully accurate portrayal of what happened.
Are you aware of the Bishop's approval?

Check your facts before you post something like this. Better fact checking gives you greater credibility.

March 23, 2008 12:20 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Knox said...

According to St. A's website, this is an annual event. I have no reason to doubt what was written there.. and if the bishop approved, I'm sure he had no idea of what happened or what was discussed.

The women's book group is nothing but an ultra-feminist group. According to their own website, they have had Barbara Reid, Robert McClory, and Carolyn Osiek come speak. All three of these people want women's ordination. One even mocks the doctrine of infallibility.

Maybe you should try to realize the errors of these people and not defend them while attacking me.

March 23, 2008 4:45 AM  
Blogger Anthony M Piferrer said...

Jon, if I were you I would promptly delete cowardly anonymous posts.

And I don't think, given St. A's record, that one needs much "evidence" and fact-finding to get what is really going on...

Keep up the good work :)

March 23, 2008 11:47 PM  
Blogger Anthony M Piferrer said...

FutureChurch: "Working to make the Church better..."

I wasn't aware that the Church needed stuff added to it to make it better. I think a return to what has been fundamentally Catholic for two millennia is in order.

My belief is that at the moment where the Church could truly have entered into the fullest expression of its ancient mission, it was hijacked by modern progressivism and novelty and this ridiculous belief that to improve something one must add to it, change it, create new things. No, no, no, we need to return to the basics now more than ever.


March 23, 2008 11:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i don't see what's wrong with changing the liturgy...i believe that people should worship in a way in which they can have the best spiritual experience. do you not agree? what if that's now always through traditional liturgical practice?

March 25, 2008 11:17 PM  
Blogger Jonathan Knox said...

I don't want to debate traditional liturgy vs the new order of Mass in this post. Liturgical praxis isn't what is at issue here. FutureChurch wants women priests.

About the liturgy though, as Catholics, once we have a rite (be it the Traditional Roman Rite, the Novus Ordo, any Eastern rite) you must stick with what is in the books. Liturgy is not about getting something out of it- it is much more about worshiping God in a way that He deserves.

March 25, 2008 11:25 PM  
Blogger Anthony M Piferrer said...

I agree with John.
The word "liturgy" is from the Greek meaning "public work". The intent, as so many mistakenly believe, is not to have a spiritual experience. That is secondary, tertiary, maybe even quaternary to the MAIN reason for the liturgy, which is rendering our prayers and selves to God. As long as humanity has worshipped God, there has been some notion of sacrifice, of us giving something up for Him. The idea that we are to obtain or experience something as the primary motivation for engaging in liturgical practice is incredibly mistaken. We got all we need from Christ's Cross and Resurrection. What now will we do for Him?

March 27, 2008 12:16 AM  
Anonymous Judy Wibbelsman said...

Hello, Jonanthan. Having read your blog for a couple of months I have from time to time wanted to comment but have resisted until today.

First, congratulations on your conversion to the Catholic faith. I too am a convert, having converted more than 30 years ago.

But dear boy, you are reminding me of a petulant child with a long stick that likes to stir up ant beds just for the sake of agitating and stressing the ants. Or one that likes to lob stones in a quiet pond to enjoy the ripples it creates.

Your reasons behind your offensive actions apparently are your perceived need for the Church to be defended and protected from a liberalizing element. Is this correct? Why you take this upon yourself I am not clear. The Church is a Big Girl and can take care of herself having withstood pressure for nigh on to 2000 years.

You also remind me of the ones Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 6:5. I was at the performance of the Magdalene the night you and some friends on the sidewalk were reciting the rosary in demonstration. Loudly. It was an unkind and unnecessarily disruptive thing to do. You should have come inside and enjoyed the performance for that is what it was. It was not a Mass.

You are persisting in this type thing, indirectly targeting people you, for whatever reason your mind is conjuring, perceive as hurting the Church. You need to stop throwing those pebbles into the water.

You wrote in this last blog entry that you wish you could have been at the event you cited. You're what, 18 or 19 years old now? If you had been present that day you would have been 14 or 15 I think. No doubt you wish you had been there. You would have been the one with the long stick.

No one likes to be a target. Not even our Lord. In Gethsemane the night He was betrayed, knowing what He was facing, He asked the Father to relieve Him if possible of the ordeal. Not that anything you have caused thus far is properly compared to the suffering of Jesus, just that He didn't wish to be a target.

Someone suggested in a comment on a previous entry you donate time to charity. You wrote back, as I recall, you couldn't do that as you were pretty much confined to campus. I gather you have no transportation. I live fairly near campus and would be more than delighted to provide you with a ride if you want one. Catholic Worker House and St Vincent de Paul can always use some extra hands.

You don't like anonymous comments, but as I mentioned above, no one likes to be a target so that is why you get them. But since they apparently cause some irritation and I really have no desire to irritate you I will sign my name.

I remain your servant in the Lord Jesus Christ,

Judy Wibbelsman

March 27, 2008 1:04 PM  
Blogger Anthony M Piferrer said...

There is the (mistaken) belief these days that one is a "bad" Catholic if one does not go out and help the poor, build houses, etc. During my time at St. Augustine's Church in Gainesville I was made out to be a poor Catholic and actually had a profound spiritual crisis because of the intense pressure to do work in the community, although I simply did not have the time. They seem to have forgotten that all that time I did write very often to the local newspaper to advocate Catholic values among the student community, that I participated in Church and community events, and that I united my voice in prayer to those most in need. Charity is not just handing bread to a poor man. There are spiritual works of mercy, as well, and while the faithless of our generation see those as lacking efficacy, they are, all the same, incredibly important if not more important. We children of God are not just made of flesh but are wholly spirit as well.

If I am not mistaken, among the spiritual works are "instruct the ignorant" and "counsel the doubtful", actions which necessarily require a degree of proactivity very distinct from the sort of moral complacency that you are advocating. It seems that those who most call for complacency, passivity, and moral laxity are those most militant, whether they realize it or not, in their attempts to make the Church more "progressive" or "modern."

Regarding the "Big Girl", you forget that "the Church" is both its institutional core as well as its body, aka, us the Catholic faithful, which the past several decades has not done so great a job taking care of itself. Mass attendance has dropped, vocations have dropped, there have been sexual abuse scandals, theological errancy of all sorts that once would have merited swift excommunication, infiltration into the church by modernist, secular, and worldly ideologies like Marxism, feminism, radical egalitarianism, etc. etc. etc. I could add to this list for hours. You mean to say that the body of the faithful has been doing just fine??? Granted, there have been untold miracles in the past several years as there have always been and always will be. But there are threats to the Church that anyone who is TRULY devoted to true, pure Catholicism, the faith given us by Christ Himself, would do well to bring awareness to with sound teaching, firm conviction borne of faith, and prayer.

Do not forget that Christ Himself took a whip and entered the very heart of the temple to scatter the worldly moneylenders who blasphemed the religious place. Do not whine and complain if the justice due you is done, for we are all meriting to an extreme degree.

March 28, 2008 11:01 AM  
Blogger Anthony M Piferrer said...

PS The Agony in the Garden had nothing to do with Jesus fearing being a "target". He knew full well what he would be given up for and gave himself up freely to God's Will.

The Agony in the Garden:
40 And when he was come to the place, he said to them: Pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

41 And he was withdrawn away from them a stone's cast; and kneeling down, he prayed, 42 Saying: Father, if thou wilt, remove this chalice from me: but yet not my will, but thine be done. 43 And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony, he prayed the longer. 44 And his sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow.

March 28, 2008 11:06 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Knox said...

Judy, thanks for writing. Anthony has said a bit, so I will just quote Pope Pius XII:

We belong to the Church militant; and She is militant because on earth the powers of darkness are ever restless to encompass Her destruction.

March 30, 2008 2:16 AM  
Anonymous Gerald said...

I know this post is a bit late in coming, but some thoughts:

I WAS present for this event in 2003, having asked several orthodox friends to be there as witnesses. I strongly suspect word of this got out, because the event was toned down somewhat (such as cutting out certain eco-feminist "prayers" that Future Church recommends be included in the liturgy).

The one thing that very clearly stands out in my memory is how obsessed the speakers were with establishing that Mary Magdelene was not a prostitute. There happens to be some pretty compelling arguments suggesting they're right, but that's not the point here. The point is: why focus on this in the first place? The distinguishing aspect of Mary Magdelene was extreme remorse for her past behavior, a deep and abiding humility, and an incredible love for Jesus. None of these three aspects of the saint were emphasized during the event, because they simply are not helpful to pushing Future Church's image of St. Mary Magdelene as "Apostle to the Apostles" and as their last ditch effort to convince people that there were women priests in Biblical times. This gives considerable insight into the celebrants' views on the virtue of humility and the need for repentance. It was as if they wanted Mary Magdalene to be a perfect with no need to repent of past mistakes. Of course, there is such a woman, but she presents a whole different set of problems for Future Church and its supporters.

As an aside, the same people who put on the event at St. A's were largely responsible for the atrocious "Celebrating Women Witnesses" series from a couple of years before that was cosponsored by Future Church and - wait for it - Call to Action.

May 15, 2008 7:25 PM  

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